Vidmar Drawer Pull End Caps
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- Manufacturing Today
- General
- Vidmar vs. Lista vs. Kennedy etc.
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I have visited Mick's collection. The Look Good and from what I saw they were full. I wish that I had the space to do the same.
How are the knees doing Mick?
I am closing in on the power for the Moore, probably next week.
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I have vidmars and listas in my shop, both purchased used. If I was to buy them again, I would avoid the listas and stick with the vidmars. The listas have plastic parts that are supposed to actuate a drawer lock, and the plastic breaks and the drawers jam. I have zero problems with the Vidmars.
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Lista Lista Lista! I was indoctrinated into Lista by German and Swiss machinists as an impressionable student and shop/lab rat so I am totally biased (This is analogous to being Raised by Wolves by the way). Then when I got in a position to do major shop upgrades at a couple of local universities and hospitals, we did all Lista, in part because the long time British Columbia rep is a Lista only specialist which gave me confidence we'd get our 15 and 20 unit orders exactly right. That's kind of important when it's $30K and you don't get to exchange some when you realized you ordered the wrong thing.
If you really want to see cabinets though, go to the recently renovated Museum of Anthropology at UBC in Vancouver. They apparently spent $9 million in cabinets with the Italian company that built the Mona Lisa enclosure etc. See GOPPION S.p.A.. You can sort of see one of the MOA cabinets in the picture in this article: UBC Museum of Anthropology - Aboriginal Culture From Around the World . The copper drawer handles are absolutely gorgeous. MOA has one set of drawers that's 3 meters wide, a meter deep and about 20cm tall. The slides really do make everyone else's stuff look like toys.
Robin
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I have a mix of 6-8 Vidmars and Listas, all of which I purchased used. I think that all but one were initially owned by Boeing. I purchased them either from Boeing Surplus outlets or from subsequent owners.
Since there has been so much discussion of these two brands, let's see some pictures of the details.
These pictures are for a Stanley Vidmar:
Having the factory phone number on the sticker is handy if you lose the key or have a jammed drawer.
The above is a Stanley Vidmar that I cleaned up and to which I added full-swiveling casters. The handles on the Vidmar do not extend the full width of the cabinet, unlike those on the Lista. These handles also have plastic end caps.
The light-colored strip on the bottom is just a vanity trim strip.
I find the two brands to be reasonably equivalent in terms of strength. On almost all of the used ones that I have purchased, it took more effort than desireable to open and close the drawers. This has been true on both brands.
The problem has been petrified grease in the roller bearings. They can actually get to the point that they don't roll, at least when the drawers are empty.
I take out the drawers and the guides/slides/tracks and clean everything. I shoot a little Kroil on the bearings and thirty seconds later they can be easily cleaned. I then just spray them with WD-40, which is what a Lista factory rep told me to use.
There may also be petrified lube and/or possible some wear on the tracks and/or the drawer rails. Again, a little Kroil and a scrap of a Scotchbrite pad and they easily clean off. If there is wear on the tracks or rails, a light pass with a file will clean up any burrs or raised edges.
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I also clean the empty cabinet and then start putting the pieces back in.
I don't actually remove the locking mechanism but I do remove, clean, lubricate, and reinstall everything else.
Here is a closeup of the rollers and the safety catch:
Note that the two bottom rollers shown above are simple rollers on a pin while all the others are ball bearings. Note that they are staked, peened, or swedged in place (not sure which is the appropriate term here. I guess that it keeps the bearings from falling off but I wouldn't want to have to replace one. Hopefully they never fail.
The safety latch can also be seen dropped down and about to engage the tab below.
The individual drawers are then reinserted into their appropriate slots.
The Vidmar drawers do not have the densely punched or ventilated bottoms that is typical on the Lista drawers.
The ears (hooks) on the rear of the drawer can be seen above. This is intercepted by the locking rod in the back of the cabinet if the locking bar is swiveled into place.
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I bought another Lista cabinet last week. I'll try to take some photos when I clean it up and post them so that it is easier to make comparisons between the two brands.
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As far as significant differences between Lista and Vidmar, its pretty much a Ford vs. Chevy thing, as far as I'm concerned.
I had the good fortune to recently acquire a fair number of Listas and Vidmars for free but many had been used pretty hard in their previous life. Both are good and well up to the task if not abused.
I would give Vidmar the edge, if for no other reason than excellent factory service. I've purchased a good number of parts to put these cabinets in proper condition. Virtually every part is available and surprisingly inexpensive, from keys, lock parts to various drawer and carriage bits and pieces. Several times I have called to get prices and was invariably surprised at how low they were.
Jim
- First off, it's not enough to say you have Lista without saying if you have "old" Lista or "new" (current design) Lista. I have some current design Lista and was curious what the hell you are talking about so I just now removed a drawer and looked in there with a flashlight. The only plastic I could see was a piece on each drawer back (over steel) that served as as sort of lubricated guide for the cam locking mechanism. But the actual locking tab was all steel. Never had any such problems myself....but then I've never locked my "old" Listas, so perhaps that is what you are referring to ?
Originally Posted by rimcanyon 
I have vidmars and listas in my shop, both purchased used. If I was to buy them again, I would avoid the listas and stick with the vidmars. The listas have plastic parts that are supposed to actuate a drawer lock, and the plastic breaks and the drawers jam. I have zero problems with the Vidmars.
Frankly I've had more problems with the lock mechanism of a (current design) Vidmar than with Listas. Had a situation where the Vidmar drawers on one full height cabinet just would not open even unlocked unless you held your mouth right. But that was the only Vidmar like that..all others have been fine.
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My Listas (brand new) have no plastic in the locking mechanis=m.
The rollers are all plastic however, which would offend some I suspect. They are very smooth and quiet however. The plastic-on-pin design seems like it may not have the long-term durability of ball bearings however.
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- Interesting... my newest Lista set (new in mid to late 90's) appears as the current design but the drawer rollers are all steel. So apparently they make little changes here and there as the years go by, some of which are not apparent just looking at the outside. Originally Posted by mark thomas
The rollers are all plastic however, which would offend some I suspect. They are very smooth and quiet however. The plastic-on-pin design seems like it may not have the long-term durability of ball bearings however.
The main difference in "old" and "new" Lista designs is the old design has the drawer handles rivetted or screwed on the middle of the drawer face, sort of like Vidmars, except curved in profile. Whereas the "new" Listas the handle is integral with the drawer front sheet metal. and therefore always at the top of each drawer face.
Also the old handles "protrude" out like Vidmars, whereas the new integral handles are sort of recessed into the cabinet face...makes for a "neater" looking cabinet anyway and one is less likely to catch one's shirt on the sharp corner (after the plastic handle end protectors fall off).
Milacron
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I should have discussed this my previous post. We bought our first big batch of Lista in 2007 and the mechanisms appear the same as the cabinets at the University of BC going back to the 70's. The drawer pulls have the plastic end caps which are a bit fragile to take off in order to put the labels in. They're good though as you have a nice wide pocket to put laser printed labels in.
We did it again in 2009 for UBC Okanagan and for that set, all the rollers are plastic as alluded to above. The problem them is no one knows what the longevity of the plastic is going to be. They certainly run smoother under light load (in the showroom if you will) but what happens when you put all your bender tooling in one and totally overload it?
Robin
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If you didn't pay for that capacity.......
You aren't going to get it, the engineers will make sure you aren't 'stealing'.
Nowadays, that is.
- I think it's more about long-term durability that overloading per se. I have at least one drawer at near capacity (400#) I think, and it is as smooth as can be. But who knows after a few hundred thousands open/close cycles. Originally Posted by rcoope
We did it again in 2009 for UBC Okanagan and for that set, all the rollers are plastic as alluded to above. The problem them is no one knows what the longevity of the plastic is going to be. They certainly run smoother under light load (in the showroom if you will) but what happens when you put all your bender tooling in one and totally overload it?
Robin
- I haven't looked closely at the plastic version since it's not my local shop. In principle you could get great performance out of plain plastic bearings but I think these are roller bearings. I sure hope they're as durable. That's the most important thing about this type of cabinets. The old UBC shop philosophy was to buy them whenever you had a bit of capital and they would last forever. Everyone they ever bought is still going strong. Originally Posted by mark thomas
I think it's more about long-term durability that overloading per se. I have at least one drawer at near capacity (400#) I think, and it is as smooth as can be. But who knows after a few hundred thousands open/close cycles.
R
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Glad you like the Lista cheetahcnc
[email protected]
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Linda there's so much plugging going on for Lista here, I think you should pick
one poster at random (me) and donate a brand new lista cabinet to them.
I accept.
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If this thread has actually attracted the attention of an official representative of Lista, as opposed to some kind of troll or leg-pull, then I see this as evidence that Practical Machinist "has arrived" as a real commercial force, a forum to which the major suppliers stand up and take notice.
This has all sorts of wonderful implications in terms of the commercial world reading the posts here and perhaps being positively influenced to offer the products that PM members like.
Just imagine fewer products with features we don't like and more products with features we do like. Better customer service........yeah, if the product people would just read PM and heed it !
ON EDIT: I hope that everyone can tell that parts of this post are strictly tongue-in-cheek and should be taken with a grain of salt !!! - JRR
- Trust me, if I could I would. I'd get me a free one first though... Originally Posted by jim rozen
Linda there's so much plugging going on for Lista here, I think you should pick
one poster at random (me) and donate a brand new lista cabinet to them. I accept.
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Hi there SouthBendModel34,
I am indeed legit. I am a marketing coordinator at Lista International out of Holliston, MA. I wanted to join some of the forums to see what people were talking about, good and bad, as I see it as being a big part of my education. I've only been with Lista for a little over 6 months and find it crucial to understand how everyday people use our products.I definitely relay what I hear back to management, especially if it's something quality related...or a question I can't answer.
So all in all, I hope I'm welcome to chat with you guys and browse the conversations. I know you guys like pictures so I'll share whatever I've got and I would love it if you did the same. With people's premission I would also upload them to our Facebook page and of course give them credit.
I'm trying to learn, grow and contribute. So ask me any questions you might have and I'll try my best to answer them.
[email protected]
- Smooth Running Drawers
I've got lots of Equipto, a few Lista (new and old), a Stanley Vidmar, and a NuEra. The drawer dimensions on Lista and Nu-Era are 24.1" square, with a 17mm slot pitch. The Equipto and Vidmar use a 25.5" square drawer with a 51/64" slot pitch. Listas have 36 spaces in each direction, while Equiptos have 32.
All of them will run smooth if you overhaul the carriage system properly. The common problem is that the cheap factory grease polymerizes, becoming solid, and causes the ball bearings to seize up. Just solvent and lube is nowhere near enough and is a wasted effort. To properly clean out the solidified grease, hot-tank them using a Parkerizing tank filled with a potent detergent and caustic solution, such as Zep Purple Degreaser and add lye to it. Heat the Parkerizer to just less than boiling. A Parkerizing tank is long enough to accommodate the full side of a drawer carriage. With the carriage dunked, rake the bearings with a stainless steel bristle brush until they spin really, really free, and there's no plastic left in the bearing. The caustic makes the grease water soluble, and the detergent aids in getting to the bare metal. Hot tanking does start to take paint off, but never mind. Needless to say, wear neoprene gloves and goggles for this work (they're cheaper than cornea transplants).
The bearings are mounted with swaged rivets which occasionally are loose. To correct this, mount a big blunt center punch in a vice with hard, knurled jaws. Set the inboard side of the rivit on the punch, and make sure you're on the center and not off center. Aim a big hammer carefully from above and bang the rivet tight. You can replace the bearings, but it's almost never necessary unless you missed the center.
Immediately after the hot tank, rinse in hot water sprayed from nozzle. 140�F water from a water heater is plenty. Don't wait for rust to form, as caustic is oxidizing. Then blow out all the water from the bearings with compressed air, and again don't wait. Oil, not grease, the ball bearings liberally with Delo 400 engine oil which has plenty of additives to last long after you're dead. The ball bearings hold the oil like discarded tires hold water. There's no need for a thickened lubricant. Sparingly lube the sleeper roller axles as well.
Next, clean the gliding surfaces on both the cabinet runner inserts and drawers with a strong hydrocarbon solvent, like the pro strength Goof Off, and rags. For badly trashed surfaces such as strongly adhered rust, use a finger sander, or just go at by hand it with abrasive cloth. Smooth rolling needs a smooth roadway. Any bumps cause a bumpy ride. Excess oil will quickly cover any bare metal and protect it from rusting.
Reinstall and marvel at the smooth, smooth running. If anything is hanging up, look for bent sheet metal and straighten it. Don't be afraid to re-do any that can't be opened and closed with one arthritic finger, as sometimes a chunk of hidden plastic grease escapes the process.
Last edited by BernardC; 05-11-2019 at 10:22 AM.
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